Young worship leader, they love you. They really do. They just hate your music.
They love Jesus. They love their church. They just can’t adjust to your sounds. To you, it’s fresh and inspiring. To them, it’s ear plug worthy.
There isn’t a worship leader on planet earth that doesn’t struggle with leading multiple generations in worship.
It has never been easy. It probably never will.
Music changes.
Volume changes.
Church programming changes.
Elder ears change.
Is it possible for multiple generations to worship together or is the dividing line of musical preference too thick?
Two Options
There’s two paths to take here.
- Ignore them and pursue reaching the next generation exclusively.
- Invest yourself into reaching each generation represented in your church.
Where do you fall?
I’m a fan of option #2. I love to see the generations worshiping together, but it’s just not that simple.
How do we pastor those who don’t like our music?
How do we engage an older, Jesus-loving, church building generation?
The truth is, we owe a lot to these older saints. They’ve been around the church for a while. They invested countless hours volunteering their time. They’ve given thousands upon thousands of tithe dollars. They love Jesus and they love their church.
They even love you, young worship leader. They just don’t like your music.
Times have changed and they’re struggling to catch up. The music that moves young people infuriates the elder. The music that moves the elder bores the young to tears.
This post is designed less as a “how-to” and more of a discussion.
So help me write a follow-up post, my friends. How do you engage an older generation in worship? Let me know in the comments.
First off. Thx for doing this I struggle with this so much. I actually struggle with both age and language (spanish) barriers.
Second, bring down the volume. If their ears aren’t hurting they’ll be more receptive.
I also think that mixing in “old” songs with “new” songs each week will help.
I find it hard to do because I try to be lead by the spirit when choosing songs, and I feel that by trying to appease people i’m hindering what the Holy Spirit wants to do.
What do you do if the volume is never low enough? What I’ve found is that sometimes it’s more of a musical style issue than a volume issue. Any thoughts?
I find that sometimes the volume can be so low it hinders worship. A lot of people I speak with don’t typically like it when the person next to them is louder than the music. Sometimes, when people think others can hear them sing, they become self-conscious and then miss out on experiencing God during worship. Just a couple of my cents.
I agree! When the volume is too low, I personally do not want to sing. Although I am still worshipping God and everything, I do not want to sing out loud because I might be heard above the singers on stage! haha.
This happens a few times at my church. They have different sound people, so it is different all the time.
Dave’s comment really came home this weekend when someone complained about the volume of the electric guitar. This was before the service and it was not in the PA. Just a few random notes in a small amp facing a curtain in the back of the stage. You can’t make this up 🙂
I’m pretty sensitive to this issue and try to do reasonable volumes. There is a point at which the music no longer sounds musical when you simply reduce the volume in the PA. At that point you still hear cymbals [even in a drum cage], acoustic guitars, etc. but now they are way out of whack with the rest of the instruments. That sets a lower bound.
There are 2 things that really influence this. One is a poor sound (not true where Dave and I are). Poor sound is always reported as being too loud. Always. Finding a large portion of your congregation avoiding coming in until the worship set is over is a dead giveaway of this problem. [now stopping myself from going on a tangent]
I thoroughly agree that changing things up helps a lot. Older hymns mixed in, songs with large dynamic ranges (Revelation song is one I always point to for this effect), and “un-plugged” sets all help. I must admit, however, that un-plugged weekends do not necessarily help attract this group in a big way. But it does let them know that you hear them.
Mixing tempos and volumes is often my favorite way to work through this. Use that female vocalist on a slower song with minimal instrumentation between those two “head-banging” songs. Ears appreciate the break. Multiple high volume songs strung together is great fun, and often appealing to younger crowds, but should probably not be the norm for a mixed-age crowd.
BTW, older ears are often extremely sensitive to certain high frequency sounds. Cymbals in church, therefore, need to played as they are in the studio: MUCH quieter than the drums.
Finally [I know the readers here really look forward to me winding down :)], a FULL mix will feel louder than a thin mix. So – probably much to Dave’s surprise – I almost never break 100dB, C-rated. But it is a full mix and thus feels louder. Find a band who can do full mixes, and an engineer who knows how to mix them and you’ll appeal to a wider age group.
YMMV
Great topic! I do two things to try to include the older generation in worship:
1) Instead of just launching into a new song modern worship song in all of its perfectly arranged glory, I’ll stop and teach the congregation how to sing the chorus with just one instrument. This way I can slow down and let people “catch up” so they feel included and aren’t left staring at a screen the whole time during worship because they don’t buy the popular CDs. I’ll also go over the meaning of the lyrics and mention why I chose the song – and maybe even share a verse that fits the theme of the song. This seems to take care of the sometimes very legit concern of the older generation that new modern worship is not as spiritually potent and some older hmyns.
2) I usually try to weave at least one older chorus or hymn into a Sunday morning worship set. I know a lot of people do this. I usually don’t a whole song – just a part. “As the Deer” can be inserted into “Forever Reign” just as “Oh the Blood of Jesus” fits great with “Here I Am to Worship” and the “How Great Thou Art” chorus seems tailor-made for “Mighty to Save.”
Looking forward to learning from the other responses!
Fantastic tips, Jamie. I love the idea of sharing the meaning behind a song. It does help to soften the edge a bit.
One of the best ways to deal with this is to foster a loving relationship off of the stage. At the root of most of the older generations anxiety (at least from my conversations) is that the Church is passing them by, as if they don’t matter. In fact, many times even when you do the older tunes there is still friction for one reason or another. I truly believe that at the heart, they are like everyone else. They just want to know that you care. They want to know that you value them and their contribution to the Church. This is built off stage as you pastor them. This has been huge at or church. We do some older stuff, but not usually. However our older saints are very accommodating because they know that we love them and genuinely value them. You will be amazed at how much you can get away with when you create a foundation of trust like that. Once you develop that relationship the other stuff will make a much bigger impact. All that to say, the issue cannot be resolved musically or programmatically alone. It has to be resolved pastorally and relationally as well. Care about them off the stage and they will know you care on the stage. Pastor them off the stage and they will let you pastor them on the stage. At least, that is how it has worked for us.
Mac, that is so wise. Love it. Thanks for sharing. Have you noticed the older generations engaging in worship more or do they simply tolerate it better?
Both really. It really depends on the person. Most I notice are engaged and some I am sure they simply tolerate it, but we have created a culture in our church that most people get and that is that Sunday mornings are really a time for our believers to be activated in ministry together as we create an environment that will lead people who are far from God to being fully devoted followers in Christ. We want people to experience the presence and power of God as they are impacted by the love and grace of God through the people of the church. So we hear a lot of “I may not like all your music but my grandson is coming to church and he never comes to church”. Most of our older saints know that we not only care for them, but that we still value their contribution to the Kingdom. Not only that, but we emphasize the fact that if you are looking for your weekly fill up on Sundays you are going to starve. You need to be engaging in worship throughout the week.
All of this doesn’t mean that we don’t open up the vault once in a while, but we aren’t intentional about doing it unless it speaks to the overall goal of the service. And in reality, the Holy Spirit has a great way of overshadowing personal preference when His power is at work. This approach takes a lot of time, prayer and personal commitment to people throughout the week. It means making house or hospital calls, it means lingering at the altar with people to pray them through the valley’s. It means visiting their family in the hospital and showing up a birthday party’s. But in the end it is worth it. And I have a lot less stress when it comes to programming and an army of “old saints” who will defend me and our staff to the last. That is the long answer to a short question.
Wow. Sounds like you’ve created an incredible culture. More churches should hear about what you’re doing. Thanks Mac.
That was some seriously great stuff, Mac. I plan to explore some of the elements you described with my team. Thanks!
I LOVE this reply! I totally agree, it’s about the relationship and respect. Because they know and trust you, they see you heart and it’s to bring them into the presence of God, they will follow. We need to get on speaking/hugging terms with our oldies! 🙂
I believe that if you are hearing from the Lord when choosing songs, worshiping Him and focusing on Him, it’s hard for people to complain about the songs and stuff, because they are just blown away by the presence of God in the room.
I do tend to use a mix of old and new, but am very known to pick new, simple songs that just point to Jesus. It’s in that posture that He transforms.
P.S – I loved Jamie’s reply also, but I don’t like to be too ‘talky’ when I lead worship… but will definitely keep it in mind!
My approach is to do both types of music, while at the same time, encouraging them to focus on God and the lyrics, not the type of music. Not all are going to get it, but most will.
When I first started going to my church about 4 years ago, there were about 100 people and 90% of them were under 35. We’re still a very young church but now that we’re closer to 350 members, there is a much more diverse age range.
Our music is geared toward this generation and it is, well…loud. I know that there are many members that still LOVE the music but they have a hard time with the volume.
We switch it up in a couple of ways. For example, some meetings we do an acoustic set with either a djembe or no percussion at all. Other times, like this past Sunday, we did an old school classic (“I Exalt Thee”) with just the keys. It was powerful!
It’s easy to focus on the majority, especially in a church like ours. But it’s important that we realize that our community is diverse and if approached with the right perspective, this can be seen as a way to stretch your style and format as a musician.
FUNNY SIDE NOTE: I did a Google search for “I exalt thee lyrics” and the first result was Jesus Culture. Ha!
Interesting perspective, Tony. I was actually talking with Justin Jarvis about this a couple days ago. You guys definitely have a unique dynamic of mostly young people. So are there still young people that have an issue with the volume?
Ha! Jesus Culture has made an already famous song even more famous!
I don’t know of any young people that have an issue with the volume. I’ve only heard it from a few of the older members. Never heard of a problem with the musical style though, which is a first for me.
I remember when we did the recording of Harbour Live, the sound engineers cranked the volume and since we’re in a residential neighborhood, we had the neighbors complaining! 🙂
I lead worship for my youth group, so I really don’t have to deal with this as much as in the regular church services. However, I still have to do this to a certian extent.
Some fresh and new songs are just not easy to sing along with to some people…others they are amazing. You have to create balance. For this reason, we always play a few new things mixed in with some familiar songs.
Same aspect applies for the church. While the younger crowd (like me!) enjoys loud, energizing music, the older generations enjoy the familiar hymns. I think that it is great to include both. Playing the new songs and also jazzing up the hymns a little bit!
Great post! I look forward to the follow-up!
Hey David,
One of my theses is that its the lyrics of our songs sometimes propagate the ‘worship generation gap’. Because of where they focus – on me, not on the Word, not on others. I blogged more about this here:
http://www.weekendwarriorworship.com/can-keeping-the-main-thing-the-main-thing-help-bridge-the-worship-generation-gap/
I agree with the musical style verses volume comment. I think that there’s always going to be something to complain about. Honestly, the only concern in worship is what we’re saying to God. Maybe the heart of worship is what needs to be addressed.
First, I want to say this is a great discussion and is probably one of the most talked about topics in worship. I think sometimes when people complain about music being too loud, it is because the quality is lacking. Not musical quality, but speaker, soundboard, and engineering type of quality. We have a pretty diverse mix of age groups in our church and I think we do a good job of bridging the gaps. We play older songs as well as newer. I don’t have a problem with hymns, I love them actually. But I think that sometimes we need to realize that the older people NEED the energy that the youth can bring. Can we, during worship, impart some of our youthful energy to an older generation? And likewise, the youthful, have to be cognizant and willing to receive wisdom and advice from the older. There is some walking of fine lines, but I agree with a poster above that if everything is done with love and there is a mutual appreciation between generations, wow, what a beautiful and maybe even somewhat rare thing that can be had in a church.
great post and great comments!
I have a short story: There was a dude in his 80’s at a church plant I used to lead at who sat front row center no matter how loud my amp was (I typically lead from electric, and typically do a modern, noisy thing). During greeting time he was the first to always come up to me, grab my shoulders, and say, “boy I just love all that music you young people play for the Lord!” He was excited to see the church grow, stoked for the mission and vision of the church to reach that community, and he ABSOLUTELY GOT IT. He is an example of a mature christian to me. Someone who knows it’s not about him, but about his offering to the Lord. It’s about being a part of a community that strengthens one another and works unrelentingly to connect to the world around us.
We tend to program so much for our people (old and young), and in doing so, unintentionally lead them to believe that this whole thing is for them. While it’s sweet to get down to something you dig, at the end of the day, I would hope that all of us, old and young, can mature and strive to be about the Lord, His Kingdom, His righteousness, and more specifically, that we could be about how God is using our church community to impact the community around us.
As a worship leader, I take complaints of this nature seriously, as I often see long-time followers of Christ who have been misled into thinking the worship is for them! I strive to take that as a teaching moment and cast vision for our church. It only works sometimes.
Nice post! I’ll say amen to that! I listen to Pastor Steven Furtick pretty regularly, and he says about the same thing you do. He says that he doesn’t cater to everyone’s preference. That may sound harsh, but it’s working and it avoids what you described in your post about letting people think it’s about them.
Awesome example, bro. I love it. What about those people who don’t “get it”? How do we pastor them, lead them, and engage them? Or shouldn’t we?
At our church, we know the far side sections are significantly quieter than the rest of the sanctuary. When someone comes up to me and complains about volume, I let them know that they are free to sit wherever they like, but encourage them to sit where we know it’s quieter.
I wish the older generation spent more time investing in what the younger crowd is doing, rather than complaining about our methods of reaching our world for Jesus.
Well said, Jason. This is more in line with my perspective on the issue.
Here’s a question: how much should we TRY to engage the older generation? Especially if our older generation – as is often, or at least should be the case – are the spiritual leaders, and therefore MATURE in their faith, how greatly should be put forth effort to play in style’s they enjoy, instead – rather – of focusing on vision-casting to them to be missional towards the younger, less mature, generations, who would be expected to be more concerned with tastes and style and such?
I ask this question because the church of a successful worship artist friend of mine has precisely done just that – they vision cast regularly with the elder members of their congregation, who are – as a whole – on board… this is a church of around 8,000 and upwards of 3,000+ of them are HighSchool or Middleschool aged! They are essentially a evangelism/discipleship program for youth: elders pour into families, family aged folk pour into college, college students mentor High Schoolers, & the High Schoolers mentor Middle Schoolers… it’s a unique, & effective vision, to be sure… and the older folks don’t even expect to hear hymns and such. Interesting to consider.
Wow, that is remarkable! I love the maturity. Was this accomplished through consistent vision casting? I wonder if they also lost a lot of people in the process, too?
Maybe they have lost some, but over-all they’ve seen immense growth: they are currently running around 8,000 a Sunday, not counting a 2nd campus of about 1,500, and a 3rd of about 150! Folks there are pretty excited – in fact, some refer to it more as a “movement” than anything else…
I lead mixed congregations regularly, here are a few practices that have helped:
1. Take a long term approach of building a consistent worship culture that has something for everyone instead of focussing on one particular group/style alone.
2. Treat substance more importantly than style – review the content of worship regularly and ask questions like: Is worship about music and song only? What else can we do? Are we entertaining people or worshipping God?
3. As much as we’d like the older generation to join the latest-song bandwagon, it’s important that younger generations (including worship leaders) also learn to appreciate and value the songs of the past, especially hymns. An old hymn delivered in a newer style helps engage multiple generations. Like Paul Baloche’s version of ‘How Great Thou Art’ for instance.
4. Find song stories or related scripture verses and tell them while using a song (old or new).
Great stuff. Sometimes I’ve found when I “reinvent” a hymn with a modern sound, it doesn’t count to the older generation 🙂 They want it done how it’s always been done!
Good questions as always!
Now, I think Larry Osborne said it. It is better to cater to mindsets not generations. I think that a third option is in order and Larry hit it on the head. I have been a part of a system that attempted to reach each generation instead of mindset. The fault of that was an usher telling an 80 year old woman she did not belong in a service that she loved because she was too old. The fault of “blending” is that no one likes it. No one! And, we then segregate the younger crowd making all generations feel entitled.
So, the truth is one worship leader will not be able to entirely relate to all generations present on his own. Or, if he or she is good at it will likely not be as good to one generation. So, what happens is a black hole arrives. It takes the entire community sharing this value for it to work in my opinion. This means the worship leader is a champion of a value all share rather than shouldering making that value present for everyone.
RK
So the value would be, what? Diversity? Reaching the next generation?
I think that so much of this discussion boils down to each church’s vision, & the culture they are reaching.
In our church, we haves a lot of “older” people, but many of them are not mature Christians at all (you’d be surprised how many people from older generations are not serving the Lord). So, for me, I can’t use the excuse “They are mature christians and should accept the vision of the church” because they aren’t. Problem is, they still don’t like all that “rock n roll.” it’s a difficult situation.
We do what some other people have mentioned where we occasionally do acoustic sets & keys only songs. I have found this to be a great compromise. We still do the newer songs, but tone them down a bit…I think this is a good teaching moment for the younger generations too–that worship isn’t about liking the music, but giving glory to God.
Ultimately, every situation is going to be unique & as worship leaders we need to be sensitive to that
I run into this dilemma on a daily basis being a 21 year old, long haired, tattooed, full time contemporary worship leader in a church where our traditional service is 5 times as large as our contemporary service.
I struggle with gaining the respect that I feel I have for the older generations. The old “You have to give respect to receive it” doesn’t always work. I’ve been at the church for over 2 years and there are still people on our governing board of elders that constantly vote to get rid of me. They don’t like the music and I would say some of them don’t like me.
I have run into some of the same problems giving hymns a modern twist and I have also “hymned up” some modern worship songs. Both of these tend to offend people more than bridge this generational gap.
I love Jason’s comment and I think that is what it comes down to. I think the people that realize that this whole church and christianity thing is not about us will be the ones to support any effort to reach the world around us. I think that old and young people both are so caught up in getting their fill, Finding a church that fits their needs, we are so caught up in a me world. When we realize that following Jesus means dying to ourselves, even in worship, the church will become a place welcoming of all music genres, volume levels, and people.
Great conversation. I would echo what some others have alluded to. This often boils down more to a discipleship issue than a worship style issue. It just plays out in the area of music and style. I think it is vital for the worship leadership and the church leadership to be investing in one another and serving together. This will make it easier to address issues with facts instead of assumptions. Everyone will be working from the same page, too.
Then, the spiritual leadership of the church needs to be teaching (and modeling) the principle of deferment, especially in multi-generational settings. I think it is a fallacy for any group (young or old, traditional or contemporary) to say they “deserve” to have it their style for any reason.
One of my faith heroes in the church I grew up in (and later served at) was an older generation who had been around for a long time, serving in many roles. I remember one Sunday morning, as we were about to begin he pulled me aside. He said to me that while he didn’t necessarily care for the style of what we were doing (and it wasn’t extreme), he was very much in favor of it because he know that would be one of the pieces that could help draw his grandchildren back to church. I walked away from that thanking God for his maturity and asking that I would be able to operate with that much grace at that age. Because, let’s face it – eventually the style we all like will one day be the “old” style.
Finally, if leaderships are working together and people are growing as disciples, then mixing styles, song, traditional, contemporary, etc won’t be as much of an issue because everyone will understand. And those that are new will soon be exposed to the why.
I’m not a big fan of multiple services of different styles because I think there is value in the generations serving and worshiping together. Different styles to me seem to just propagate the consumeristic mentality we are all struggling with anyway, and remove any reason for people to be challenged in what it means to be a disciple and love their neighbor in the seat next to them.
P.S. Great practical suggestions, too.
There’s some great imput so far. I dont have anything new to add except:
1. I like what was said earlier about taking a “long term view”. Being a band leader is different than just playing bass (my 1st instrument so I’m not hating 😉 ) the band leader (in conjunction with the pastors, elders, and other band leaders) are helping to building a culture and that takes time to do well.
2. What is your church formula? the guys from younger churches say “well the old folks don’t like the music but they like our heart”. which is true. they knew what they were getting into, but then talk to a worship leader who is trying to bring about long over due stylistic change in a church… I the response is a lot different because you’re changing the formula.
So what does the young worship leader do? The easy option is to go serve at the cool, cutting edge hip church where they speak your language. Every town has one and maybe you are called there but chances are you won’t grow personally as much as if you stayed, submitted to the larger community and are a voice for change in your church.
I came to my church despite the music. I came for the teaching and community. God’s sense of humor was to make me a worship leader and co-ordinator. 🙂
Just a thought… regardless of age/generation, styles, etc., we all should be focused on the foundational truth of the Fathers great love for us ALL, correct? And when our faith arises out of such understanding, the never ending mercies of God, what then should our spiritual act of service be, which I might add also includes our “physical-ness” (body, mind, soul).
It is never a struggle if this is our perspective, challenging yes, struggle no, because where else are we to go? IMHO, if the entire congregation takes hold of this perspective, everything else will follow suit whatever approach you take.
What’s old. I’m 60 and the music of the church has yet to catch up to the style of music I was raised on in the 60s. Don’t undersell the old in the congregation by thinking the fast, loud music bothers the old. Most of my friends can’t hear now because of years of rock band concerts. We generally are looking for deeper dynamic Holy Spirit filled creative “sets” and yes you can throw in a few hymns because after all we were the Jesus People of the 70s who were taught to include songs, hymns and don’t leave out “spiritual songs”.
Debbie, I’m glad you contributed to the conversation here! It’s nice to have your perspective. Most of the old(er) people I’ve encountered are bothered by fast, loud music. Nice to hear you’re not. What exactly do you mean by “deeper dynamic Holy Spirit filled creative sets”?
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