As we talked about earlier, effective worship pastors build teams.
They make disciples.
But anyone who’s ever done this knows it’s far from easy. No one enjoys confrontation.
But if you’re serious about making disciples, you need to have difficult conversations.
I naturally flee from confrontation. And the areas I lead come to a standstill when I do.
I’ve come to the conclusion that if difficult conversations are not a part of your regular diet, something may be seriously wrong with your leadership.
As a staff pastor at my church, I’m constantly having difficult conversations with my pastor.
I fess up when I’ve failed.
I confess when I don’t know what to do.
I reveal my weakness as a leader.
But when you reveal your weakness and give feedback to others, it actually strengthens your leadership. You can be trusted. You don’t toss issues under the rug.
The place where I struggle? Initiating these conversations with those who work under me. Yea, that’s the hard part.
But the longer I lead the more I’m gripped with an urgency to speak.
We Need You To Speak Up
You were meant to speak into others.
You were created to pass along all that you know to someone else.
There is beauty within you that needs to be heard.
You are a channel of God’s grace to others. When you remain silent you stunt the flow.
Think about it.
Confrontation is the only way you’ve become better. It’s how you’ve grown closer to God, improved your art, become a better worship leader, or excelled at anything in life.
Sure, it can be painful to hear. But if you submit to it, you’re never the same.
What To Do Next
Pick someone in your ministry who has potential – someone who could go even further than yourself.
Begin to invest in them.
Present them with opportunity to lead. Then, give them honest feedback on how they’re doing.
Be specific. Be gentle. But be honest.
Without feedback, they’ll never grow. And you were meant to speak into their life. Without your influence, they may never reach their potential.
Let us know in the comments.
Question: What keeps us from having difficult conversations? How can we do this more often? You can leave a comment by clicking here.
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leo says
Yes, I agree in what you say because in closed minds there is no room for growth and understanding and as we know that the best relationships are built on trust and communication. Those two go hand in hand. If you can communicate with your peers, staff, family, friends, band members then you will gain their trust and eventually the “confrontation” will just simply become an opportunity for advice. Then the action will become reciprocal. See we have the power given by God to have dominion over everything on this earth and the best place to begin is with our emotions. Of course if it doesn’t come easy remember that practice makes perfect. Don’t hold back, you don’t know what lesson God is waiting to teach you.
L.J.
David Santistevan says
Closed minds definitely keep you from growing. Thanks for the insight, Leo!
Nick Morrow says
“if difficult conversations are not a part of your regular diet, something may be seriously wrong with your leadership.” Yikes. Couldn’t be more true!
Last year i took a new position as a supervisor, and started learning quickly about the deficiencies that bubble up when you don’t confront people. The problem I noticed was that, when I wouldn’t confront people that needed to be confronted, the problem would fester. It would bug me, but I’d make excuses to let it go. In one previous volunteer leadership position, I even made the (worst!) mistake of “handling” the issue by complaining to every other team member in the name of “asking for advice.” (Word to the wise: don’t ever do that! 🙂
Thanks to the grace of God, I’m learning like you, David. Now I have a more pressing attitude when something’s not right, that if I don’t handle it quickly, it’s going to damage our team in some way. And that, I’ve learned, can have some serious (negative) lasting results…
David Santistevan says
Nick, it’s awesome to see how you’ve learned from your mistakes. I’m doing the same. I’ve found that confrontation doesn’t have to hurt people if you approach it like a pastor. You have their best interests at heart and when your team realizes that, they’ll welcome your input.
Thanks for sharing!
Nick Morrow says
Here’s a question: how do you effectively hold people accountable or confront when the team is 100% volunteers?
I’ll admit I have an easier time confronting people at work- where there is a recognized order/system in place- versus when I’m leadin the worship band of volunteers.
Any insight would be awesome!
David Santistevan says
Nick, I’m of the opinion that just because people are volunteers doesn’t mean you don’t hold them accountable. Joining your worship team is a privilege. Your musicians are learning. They are a part of something huge. If you believe what you’re doing matters, don’t be afraid to hold your team to a high standard.
Dennis Moran says
I know some people that believe that if no conflict occured that no problem was solved or there was no resolution. Those are people that only have hammers in their tool box. Also from my experience, the people that are most fond of saying “The Truth Hurts” sometimes have a heightened sense of well-being when they see others hurt. We don’t want to be like those people. We should also have finish sanders and little pry-bars and #1 screwdrivers, stethescopes and tools like that to fix things. A person I was having a conflict with once said that “You (meaning me) can tell somebody off (Implying her), and they don’t even know that they are being told off”. I told her that my goal is the resolution of the problem to where a condition (A dissonant harmony line, a Chuck Berry solo in the middle of Breathe”, irregular tempo, you name it) changes for the better. If my goal is to make another person feel badly about who they are, I need to lead worship on a deserted island. Avoid using a hammer if a paint brush does the job better. That said, if a hammer is the best tool for the job; use it.
David Santistevan says
Good analogy, Dennis. I must say, is it ever a good idea to use a hammer?
Jason says
I couldn’t agree more with your post, David. When I shy away from confrontation it is because I fear (yes, fear) that I will not be liked… that my (selfish) popularity with people or a person is in jeopardy. That hurts to write… and probably worth writing again, then saying out loud… my lack of confrontation stems from my desire to be popular. Yikes!
David Santistevan says
Thanks for being honest, Jason. When you confess, it frees us up to see our own brokenness. We all have things we like to hide. Good stuff.
Nick Morrow says
Jason-
I wonder if a lot of leaders (esp. worship leaders) deal with this anxiety of not being liked? You hit the nail on the head of why I hate confrontation. Even though I know how unimportant being liked is…where does it come from? Not from the Spirit, and not even from conventional wisdom.
I recently read a quote from Navy Captain Michael Abrashoff: “Being likeable is not high among a ship captain’s job requitements. What is essential is being respected, trusted, and effective.”
David Santistevan says
Nick, do you think it’s possible to be respected, trusted, effective, AND likeable? What do you think?
Nick Morrow says
Good question! I think it is possible, and maybe even desirable. After all, when there is unity in the Spirit, surely we will all like each other right?
I suppose I have to keep it at the bottom of the list though, ONLY because it is a huge idol for me- being popular and likeable. I’ve never figured out how to wiggle away from that temptation (maybe I never will, and that is life in a sinful body?)
I’ve recently made a big shift within music, from playing in an indie band that gigged college town and bars, etc…to focusing almost all my creative efforts on leading worship. The biggest shift has been this: within the indie music scene, the whole game is to win over fans, “go viral,” gain popularity, and it really can wear you down (especially when you aren’t terribly successful!) Recently, I was given the opportunity to fill in for our worship pastor and had a huge light bulb: all I have to do is show up and give my best. All I have to do is bring the fish and loaves and know that the rest is God’s job.
I can’t get racked with guilt about popularity as a worship leader because the Spirit’s movement within hearts is God’s job, not mine. My job is simple and humble.
Sorry for the rant (I know it’s a huge rabbit trail..), but thanks for the opportunity to share 🙂
David Santistevan says
Nick, I’d love it if you shared more often! Good stuff! You bring up some great points. I suppose we need to define “Likeable”. I refer to it as personality and people skills. If you’re good at those, people will “like” you. That is a huge benefit as a leader because you’re then able to confront more easily and speak the hard truth when it’s necessary because be “like” and respect you. Does that make sense?
Nick Morrow says
Yep yep, it sure does, and I completely agree. One time I worked for a woman who was kind and cared for the employees. We did our best at the job b/c we didn’t want to let her down. HER boss was a cold man with little worry about his employees (and a lot of concern for profitability.) We worked hard for him only because we didn’t want to get fired 🙂
Jason says
I heard a quote recently by Allen Hood and I’ve been working at to apply it to many parts of my life…. “A heart won in tenderness is one in the tightest grip” – If I may apply it to leadership / confrontation…. if we are “tender” with a heart of a person in the midst of a challenging situation / issue it will be one in a very tight grip…. not sure if it applies in your minds or circumstances … but it really hit home for me this morning!
David Santistevan says
Great quote!
Kelvin Mutize says
I believe that its the difficult part of life but as worship leaders I believe that we cant run away from the fact…
you would find that the people who mostly confront us are the senior leadership, its rarely the congregate usually the people high up who come for confrontation and its difficult to wade them away as well…..
have you ever been confronted by this one, who do you obey the pastor, elder or God… its kinda hard but i guess the only way is to learn to deal with confrontation because our lives as worshipper will bring confrontation question is how can we deal with it…. sorry for throwing another question into the puzzle
David Santistevan says
Hey Kelvin, are you saying that God, your pastor, and an elder are in disagreement and you’re wondering who to obey?
Kelvin says
Sometimes the people that confront us a lot as worshipper are usually the the people in charge like the pastors and deacons
confrontation is hard in that place
David Santistevan says
It is difficult but you can learn so much if you submit to wise, Godly leadership.
Olivia Mawhinney says
I am so glad I stumbled upon your blog. I seem to remember your name from a long time ago. I believe our families once knew each other.
I have a dilemma. I am one of the front liners and worship leaders at a very large church in the Sewickley area and a rather disturbing fact became apparent in recent months. I found out that more than half of our large band and orchestra were unsaved, paid musicians who viewed Sunday morning worship as a job. I have gotten to know these people, and their views and some reasons why they do not like church. It has saddened me. I spoke to the music leader, a Pastor, and he told me that it wasn’t really a problem to hire people to play in the church band. I was crushed as he went on to say that to him, and the leading Pastor (who knew about it) likened hiring non-Christians to lead worship was the same as having a non-Christian mow the church grass. I broke down and sobbed as soon as the conversation was over. I felt that there were fundamentals in Scripture that these Pastors were turning their backs on. Purity in worship is one of the most important elements. If you lead without purity, there is an allowance there for sin to creep in and our offering to G-d is no longer at all pure. It also is deceiving the congregation. They are going to the church to worship and praise G-d, and they are being lead by other Christians, or so it seems because they were never told differently. In truth, we’ve hired unbelievers to “minister” to the believers.
I have had quite the past two months while I try to reckon what happened with myself. I asked my Pastor these questions out of complete sincerity and honesty and never expected the answer I got. I was so stunned I had to think on it for weeks before being able to even write about it. I consider this an atrocity of worship. It is so utterly against everything the Bible says about worship and purity. Though the Old Law has been fulfilled by the Messiah’s coming, we are still serving and praising the same G-d who struck thousands dead in one day for looking into the Ark of the Covenant. G-d honors and looks for purity in His people.
This conversation with my Pastor let him know I really cared about what was going on and etc. I think he was a bit offended and taken back by my boldness in pointing it out. He tried to defend some of the unbelievers, and though I love the people in the band, I hate the sin. A practicing Buddhist has no place on a stage for worship of the one true G-d. Since this conversation, the Pastor has begun effectively cutting me off from singing and leading by scheduling others in my place and not answering questions and communications I send him.
I have never been in this situation before.What should I do? I cannot apologize for asking an important question. I did it very respectfully and with guidance from my older mentors and father. Is there something I can do to repair this situation without backing down on my belief?
I apologize this is so long! Any advice is gladly accepted!
Nick Morrow says
Thanks for sharing these thoughts- they were challenging for me to read. It’s clear that you have a very serious desire for holiness in the church. I think we’ve lost that in North American.
I think this may be less of a black and white issue, though. (Not the issue of holiness within the church, but the issue of letting un-Christian folks participate.) As for the scriptural evidence, I think most of what is directed specifically at musicians within the church was related to the nation of Israel. And they were God’s chosen people. They had very different standards for being ‘set apart” than the church does. As for New Testament guidance, we don’t have anything directed towards musicians specifically, nor is there any evidence that the early church was exclusive in their meetings. (In fact, we see a lot of the opposite- early Christians meeting in public spaces surrounded by folks who were not Christian.)
In terms of modern examples, you might not find a better example than Keith Green. Keith was a 70’s songwriter who loved Jesus with all his heart and was nothing short of prophetic in terms of his songwriting and ministry. And you wouldn’t find a musician more committed to holiness. But Keith often recorded with non-Christians- producers or musicians he knew that were top-notch. And he saw his involvement with these folks as a vital part of his ministry.
Another great example is the modern indie artist Sufjan Stevens. Granted, Stevens is not a worship songwriter or even in the Christian market, but he is an outspoken Christian and has been covered by David Crowder multiple times. In a recent interview he was asked if his entire band was made up in Christians, and he said “No, no. They are all different- heathens and potheads and such, but I love them all.” I’ev heard different accounts of how Sufjan is a direct witness to his band, who are onstage playing songs about the Transfiguration and Revelation every night.
I guess what I am saying is, maybe there is not such a blanket answer for these difficult questions? David (Santistevan) has said that we should encourage our musicians to think of themselves as more than “hired guns.” And as far as this relates to Christians, I agree. But I don’t necessarily agree that non-Christians should be banned from any sort of church participation. I believe those decisions are not black and white, and best left up to the Holy Spirit’s guidance of the church leadership.
Olivia Mawhinney says
Nick, thanks so much for reading the whole way through that long comment, and for taking the time to comment back.
I do value purity and holiness in the church very highly. I am Jewish, and have been taught the need for such holiness and to live a life separated from sin, but loving and being with the sinner. But I am also a saved believer in Jesus Christ, and believe that all who call G-d Father (Abba) are His chosen people. He sent His Son for ALL mankind, that we may all be His children. Though Israel is still the epicenter, all true believers are “children of Israel.” The call for purity for the children of Israel is the same as the modern-day church. If we are all children, why would G-d require anything different from each other? The Old Law is fulfilled, and we live in a time of grace, but that does not mean that impurity and sin doesn’t hurt G-d the same today as it did thousands of years ago. We know and read G-d does not change. He still values purity in His children the same now as forever.
When speaking of Keith Green and Sufjan Stevens, I can only point out this (I do not know these men’s careers, beliefs, etc): These men are recording artists, who have (as quoted) said their bands are not made of Christian musicians, and may not even fall under the label ‘Christian artist.’ Those who listen to these men’s albums have the ability to find out that the band is not necessarily made of believers. The information is out there, therefore, they are not deceiving. In my church, this is not public knowledge. As a leader, it took me over 8 months of close contact before I found out. I assumed everyone was saved, and the conversation simply never came up. It’s not talked about and the congregation knows nothing. Indeed, we receive much praise for our soulful leading and worshipful attitudes. If the congregation is not told, and has no way to find out, then they are unwillingly deceived. Though this is not a deliberate act, it is still, in truth, deceit.
You’re right. This is not necessarily a black and white problem, neither is there one set answer, for every situation differs. I feel responsible before G-d for my actions and the purity of my own soul. I question hiring non-Christians to “minister” because we, as believers, should be doing the ministering. For many believers, church on Sunday morning is the only time they see the hands and feet of Jesus and it is a falsehood to have outright atheists and Buddhists seen as holy hands and feet.
I love the people I sing and play with. I love the family we have. I love that I can be an example. Some of them have become my brothers. I love them with all my heart. And that is exactly why I want them to have an accurate view of the Gospel. My church ministry is not accurate. The unbelieving band members see hypocrisy in us. Why would they want to believe in a G-d that teaches painful hypocrisy?
I ask out of honesty because I want to love right. And I want to do right for and to them.
David Santistevan says
Great discussion going on here. Thanks, Olivia. I think there’s two issues going on here. One is a theological one – should we allow non-Christians to be a part of the worship team? Many leaders disagree about this. I’d say it’s a 50/50 split. The other issue I’m hearing is a communication breakdown between you and your pastor. You should be able to bring up issues, respectfully, and not get shunned for that. Unfortunately, church isn’t always a safe place to bring up these issues. Is there any reason why your pastor wouldn’t trust you anymore because of how you handled this situation?
Olivia Mawhinney says
My family, and friends who are involved in the situation can think of no reason. Even my father agrees it was respectful. I saw my Pastor the other day, and while he did not speak to me, he at least waved. This afternoon I received an email about leading again. I hope this will blow over because it is a very awkward situation. I agree, church is not necessarily a safe place to bring these issues up, and that fact saddens me.
I really appreciate the discussion here. It has helped me to gain some perspective.
Don Simpson says
David , I like your points labeled “We need you to speak up”, I am going to throw a bunch of things out there from my own experience and a lot from some very wise Christians I have known. I hope that when it is scripture based, everyone will recognize it, as I can’t afford the time at the moment to research chapter and verse.
We all have different experiences, and talents, and spiritual gifts to contribute. We are all part of the body. Secular version; If we are identical and think alike, one of us is useless. Different points of view are inevitable. Confrontations are inevitable. The Apostles themselves had disagreements. Their resolution defined the mission of the Church. Proper confrontations edify the body.
People often defend an argument with “I have convictions”. It has been said that a conviction is something so important to you that you are willing to die for it. If not, it is simply a preference. Define your convictions very carefully. Choose your preferences carefully. Pick your battles carefully. Go into confrontation armed with truth, or don’t go in. If it is not a conviction, your right to preference is determined by tenure, popularity of people involved, ability to persuade, ability to gracefully give in or gracefully win.
Concessions on things that don’t really matter will often gain you power to stand your ground on an issue later that may be more important. “Be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.” Let people contribute. Don’t build a wall with needles preferences. We can’t control everything or everyone.
Personally, I would rather know what everybody is thinking out loud , than deal with gossip and backbiting. Confrontations aren’t easy, bu they bring things to the top of the table. If you want to be liked, you must decide by whom for what reason. Being liked is not necessarily bad. The person that is liked by no one eventually stands alone. The word balance once again finds its place. There are people I like that I don’t trust, and people I trust that I don’t like.
If you have an “argument”, just remember, an argument is rarely over, and the defeated do NOT disappear. Christians think compromise is a dirty word. Compromise on non-essentials is what discretion is all about. Clearly define your objectives. No “win” is without cost. If I win, what do I loose? If I loose, what do I gain?
To Olivia, I have hired musicians that were not “Christian” to perform in church programs, if I could not cover the part with a competent Christian musician. How do you know that Christian musicians are not involved in some deep dark secret sin? Let those among us without sin cast the first stone. Are any of us pure? Gods word will not return void, and God inhabits praise.The job of a worship leader is to “perhaps” help to focus our attention towards God. The worship leader is not a high priest behind the veil with jingles on his clothes and a rope around his ankle. We are “priestly” believers through Christ, who have no need of a high priest. We each have our own duty to worship. I have sympathy for you in your situation. We all do not have the same insight to everything. I have had disagreements with deacons and elders and senior pastors. Mostly when I was younger and more idealistic. I often quote them now, and time and pragmatism have proven them to be right, or time has given me more perspective to their point of view. Have very few, but very steadfast convictions. Gods timing will reveal all.
In general, who likes to be ignored? Who likes to be beaten down in an argument? Who likes to be included and considered as relevant? . When confronting, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you are a leader, you have been given charge to use Truth and discretion to exercise reasonable choices of preference while leading others. Avoiding your responsibility allows problems to grow. But, if you do not have the power of Truth, tread lightly. Every preference unduly forced upon others may cost more than you think. Wisdom, balance, and discretion are all important.
Spoken by one who has lost too many things by the need to win.
Olivia Mawhinney says
If a believer is involved in “some deep, dark sin” he is still covered by the blood of Christ. Once for all the Bible says. When the Father looks at that sinning believer, all He sees is His Son’s blood and sacrifice. We are perfect and holy in G-d’s eyes, even when we sin (because we all do). And to G-d, sin is sin. It matters not if it is a lie, or a pastor who’s a porn addict, G-d sees it as sin and forgives. We are made clean by Jesus’s death.
I agree with what you say about responsibility, and I really appreciate your words of wisdom and experience. I am trying to lead wisely and with kind strength. I have lost much but am willing to fight always for the side of G-d and His holiness. It’s painful, but it is Truth.
Don Simpson says
Olivia, Very well spoken! We all have blind sides. We all have talents and calling. Perhaps in your church, you have the sensitivity to see what you see, because the pastor does not. Your confrontation probably surprised him as well. Would you have confronted him if you knew in advance what his response was going to be? To answer that question is to learn something about yourself. After the fallout settles, you may see him change. Another thing about confrontation, it takes time for change to become evident. Usually the person who actually initiated the change is not around to see it or benefit from it. The initiator of change is usually “sacrificed”. Your contact with him may be the nudge he needed to change his long term trajectory and thinking for the future. Almost always, when you stand up for something against someone, there will be fallout. Trust that he learned something and that God used you even if the fallout is painful. I don’t know if what I have written is wisdom or just cold hard experience. It has been slightly less than a year since I was involved in a “confrontation”. My advice was offered as good-natured help, but was rejected by several layers of leadership, with extreme bitterness by some. My position was approved of almost unanimously by all participants except leadership. Almost instantly, I was labeled as a trouble maker, and sowing seeds of dischord. It had been over 20 years since any similar thing had happened. I just thought my life was past that. I guess I used to chase windmills. In trying to avoid being a trouble maker, I just left. I never brought it up again, and never contacted anyone. Soon after I left, a good number of other people left, and I was blamed for that. I have to admit I was bitter for a while, but God forgave me of my bitterness and I moved on. Even though I didn’t consider it a conviction, the person I am could not have done anything else. I am content to leave it in the past and let God label everything. I firmly believe that God uses those kind of things to move us to new places. It is amazing how a few simple words offered in honest kindness, with the intention of helping can take such a turn. I did it with good intentions and a pure heart, the results are up to God. It seems as if you had good intentions and a pure heart. May God richly bless your ministry. Your honesty is refreshing. I look forward to seeing you respond to more of David’s posts.
Olivia Mawhinney says
Don, I really appreciate your words! They were an encouragement to me. My confrontation must have at least startled my Pastor because he began to babble and tell long stories until time ran out and we had to head back to the stage. He only does that when he is nervous. I hoped to find a better answer than the one he gave, but I was disappointed. I am finding these days that I am consistently disappointed in the way many church-going believers act. It has inspired me to try to be even more of an example, to love even more fully with my heart and to forgive more completely.
I am sorry to hear of the discord that happened in your church. It is deeply saddening when small words become huge issues and the truth is never fully revealed. A similar things happened a few years ago, resulting in my previous pastor being thrown out of church. A few years before that, my family was shunned for homeschooling. I know we live in a imperfect world, but with all my heart, I hold onto the hope of perfection in heaven. When I don’t set my eyes on that glory, I fall. We all do. I pray for the modern church and her healing and gentleness. I think we could all stand to take a deep breath and be more forgiving.
Thanks again for the encouragement!